***Note - the quote below was given by President Ezra Taft Benson as an apostle before he became the President of the Church.
Warning, this post is rated mature adults only. There will be no content that will be morally offensive, but will likely contain information that may make many of us feel frustrated with ourselves and the world.
Well, working with Brycon has been an interesting roller coaster. Some parts have been great, and others less than exciting. When a person gets laid off the automatic Bryconian way is to head to the unemployment office. As we are facing the end of days with Brycon, Briana and I have been searching for answers as to how to pay the bills. One thing I researched was unemployment. I was surprised to find out that in the state of Utah, I would be eligible to receive $1800/month in unemployment, and could make an additional $600 in part time work without affecting my unemployment checks. I could continue receiving this money for half a year plus the spendulus package is supposed to extend this period. $2400/month with little work to help get through this last bit of school is very appealing. At the same time the ease with which this system could be abused made me feel nauseous. Along with unemployment we have looked at food stamps, medicaid, and if I would qualify for pell grants again with my reduced income.
Then today I happened to get to class early, which I never am, and happened to decide to look at BYU newspaper, the Daily Universe, which I haven't done recently, and didn't see anything interesting, but decided to look at the letters to the editor for the second time in my life. I found an interesting letter about welfare. The author quoted the following BYU address by Ezra Taft Benson -
http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6162
The part that interests me is down a bit in the address. I want comments on it.
"Are we part of the problem or part of the solution?
Recently a letter came to my office, accompanied by an article from your Daily Universe, on the matter of BYU students taking food stamps. The query of the letter was: "What is the attitude of the Church on taking food stamps?" The Church's view on this is well known. We stand for independence, thrift, and abolition of the dole. This was emphasized in the Saturday morning welfare meeting of general conference. "The aim of the Church is to help the people to help themselves. Work is to be re-enthroned as the ruling principle of the lives of our Church membership" (Heber J. Grant, Conference Report, October 1936, p. 3).
When you accept food stamps, you accept an unearned handout that other working people are paying for. You do not earn food stamps or welfare payments. Every individual who accepts an unearned government gratuity is just as morally culpable as the individual who takes a handout from taxpayers' money to pay his heat, electricity, or rent. There is no difference in principle between them. You did not come to this University to become a welfare recipient. You came here to be a light to the world, a light to society--to save society and to help to save this nation, the Lord's base of operations in these latter days, to ameliorate man's social conditions. You are not here to be a parasite or freeloader. The price you pay for "something for nothing" may be more than you can afford. Do not rationalize your acceptance of government gratuities by saying, "I am a contributing taxpayer too." By doing this you contribute to the problem which is leading this nation to financial insolvency.
Society may rationalize immorality, but God cannot condone it. Society sponsors Sabbathbreaking, but the Church counsels otherwise. Society profanes the name of Deity, but Latter-day Saints cannot countenance it. Because society condones a dole, which demoralizes man and weakens his God-given initiative and character, can we?
I know what it is, as many of your faculty members do, to work my way through school, taking classes only during winter quarters. If you don't have the finances to complete your education, drop out a semester and go to work and save. You'll be a better man or woman for so doing. You will have preserved your self-respect and initiative. Wisdom comes with experience and struggle, not just with going through a university matriculation. I hope you will not be deceived by current philosophies which will rob you of your godly dignity, self-respect, and initiative, those attributes that make a celestial inheritance possible. It is in that interest, and that only, that I have spoken so plainly to you. -Ezra Taft Benson"
Plainly every single one of us has accepted help from the government in one way or another. (unemployment/food stamps/medicaid/pell grants... government paid interest subsidized student loans... etc.) What do you think?
I Do Now
2 days ago
12 comments:
That's a really interesting post! I am not Mormon, so none of my thoughts may be applicable to your situation! But, I'll give them to you anyway, for the fun of a different perspective!
Part of what makes America such a wonderful place to live is the safety net our government provides us with. Without these provisions we wouldn’t be much better off than the countries who have large percents of their population dying of starvation or untreated medical problems.
In your case, the overwhelming economic problems our nation faces has caused you to need another source of income. Are you planning on abusing the system? No. You want to finish your education so you can contribute in even more ways to society. Sure, you could pick up a few part time positions, but even those are extremely hard to come by at this time. I think the best option, or the one I would use, would be to access the programs that are available to you. Making ends meet by side jobs will not benefit your family, your church or society in the way that finishing your education will in the future.
I am not religious, but I am familiar with the teachings of Jesus Christ. He spoke of helping and loving others. Why can’t you be the one receiving help? Knowing Briana, I’m sure you are an amazing person, and that when you are more stable will then be able and willing to help another person.
As a side note: Doesn’t the LDS Church provide students with scholorships, or families in financial stress with food? The communities of churches receive gifts and help… I don’t thnk it should be any different when it is the national community.
Seth says to contact your Bishop, as you pay fast offerings for a reason!
Best of luck!
Alyssa
sorry that was anonomous! i guess i wasnt logged in! that was me up there!
wow. never heard that quote before. very intense and definitely things to think about. which is what i'm going to have to do. i'll get back to you...
We have received pell grants after getting married to help us continue school, I don't think that this makes us social deviants. We both worked hard to make money and support ourselves and school is expensive. I don't like the part where they said you are accepting an unearned handout. It's wrong, you earned it with sincere need and appropriate appreciation for it for you and your family. You won't abuse the system and you wont stay on it too long because I sense that you have the desire to support yourselves without government intervention, but if it will help you in a time of need and while you are making more money on the side to help I think do what you need to do. I would also counsel with your Bishop and see if this is a path he would recommend. I say good luck and it's really hard right now and I know you guys will ultimately do what you know is right for your family.
Definitely an intense quote. Think away, as are we.
Alyssa, welcome to our blog, and I appreciate the nice things you said about my wife. She is amazing, but also a bit gullible as I am certainly not as amazing, but did a good job fooling her.
I will address several points.
1. Alyssa, your comment on this particular blog is a very interesting one. As you have mentioned you are not a member of our church although you are likely familiar with some of our beliefs and practices being married to a member. This post was a claim in our eyes to an absolute authority, our Prophet of God. However, you do not recognize him as your authority, so you see this from a very different perspective.
As members of the church we believe that the Prophet receives revelation directly from God to guide us in our day. In this situation it is interesting. #1 President Benson was not speaking to the entire church, or world as he often does, but only to BYU students in his time. #2 Many of us may have started reading this quote disagreeing with what was said, but now must reconcile our beliefs with what our authority has stated on no uncertain terms, granted many years ago, and to a different audience.
Anyone get the feeling this is going to be a very long comment?
2. We totally agree that we are not planning on abusing the system. (I cannot say that I have not noticed how easy it would be to abuse the system, and can almost justify it.) However willful abuse is not the point of discussion here. I do not belief a single reader of our blog would intentionally abuse the system. I interpret Pres. Benson as saying that even using the system as designed places personal responsibility on others and is destructive to oneself and the nation as a whole.
3. Education is extremely important, and I am sure I will be a greater benefit to society in many ways by finishing mine. At the same time there may be a path to gain an education without the use of tax payer's money.
4. "Part of what makes America such a wonderful place to live is the safety net..."
I agree and disagree. We are very lucky to live in a society that as a whole wants to help those around us, and has created laws in an attempt to do that. At the same time I am sure every other society in the world has the same desires. I lived in Venezuela for two years and saw intimately how another country runs. The "safety net" Chavez has created is more extensive then ours. They have free universal health care, free university education, abundant welfare programs for the poor and needy, and they even have a significant housing program for the poor where many Venezuelans can get into a home with minimal expense. It sounds great, but the people have little initiative to work. Their government is corrupt, so many of their programs are abused. Those that do try start to become successful only to become victims of crime and government abuse. Even with their safety net hunger is rampant, as is disease and poor education.
I do not belief that the greatness of our society has anything to do with our own social programs, but the relative lack of corruption in our government and the moral fibers that guide the average American. As we become accustomed to a safety net when we fall, the need/desire to climb higher will slowly go away.
Obviously politically we all have different feelings about the government’s duty to provide welfare. I have wandered too far from the subject which is not whether we should provide a "safety net," but if we should partake of it as offered.
5. The Savior taught us to love one another. As we sacrifice to help each other, we grow and become better people. In our circumstance we may be in need of assistance. Just as we should help those around us in need we should gratefully and humbly accept help offered us. If no one was willing to accept help, then we would all miss out on the opportunity to help those around us. Plain and simple.
And yes the church does have an extensive welfare program. At BYU the church already pays 2/3 of a student's tuition. The church maintains dairy farms, meat processing plants, and I don't know what all in an effort to provide food for the needy and a simple trip to the bishop would give us access to this help. Along with helping poor members of the church with food, monthly fast offerings are given to help with a member’s financial obligations when necessary. In addition to this the church maintains a worldwide humanitarian aide system that helps tons of people, members of the church or not. So yes that is an option.
This brings up an interesting comparison between community/church/charity welfare programs vs. government welfare programs. The major difference is that assistance received from a charity was freely given. The money for government welfare is taken out of people's pockets whether or not they want to give it. When was the last time that any of us got a warm feeling when we saw the deductions taken from our paycheck, and thought, wow, I may have just helped someone in need? No matter what the tax hike there are always large numbers of individuals who say, “no, I don't want to be a part of that charity/welfare program.” When you accept government money in any form you are taking if from some people who did not want to give it to you.
6. I think there is kind of a hierarchy of financial (or other responsibilities) responsibility of an individual. This hierarchy has been changed over time in our society, but I think it should be as follows.
1. The individual
2. Immediate Family
3. Extended Family
4. The community/local church
5. Larger community/church as a whole. (Include private charities)
6. City Government
7. State Government
8. Federal Government
9. International Assistance
Currently it looks more like this -
1. Individual (can be debated if they are first...)
2. Immediate family
3. Federal Government
4. State Government
What do you guys think? Should I change my order?
Wow that was long!
Joe n' Shay - Hey, I am calling all of us out, and just asking us to consider the quote. There has to be a line somewhere, and I think that most people would agree that taking pell grants do not make us deviants. I have wondered at times about paying them back when I can. How would you give the money back? I doubt the government would forward the money back to the tax payers if you sent it to them. Maybe you just pick a rich guy and send it to him?
Thanks for the post. We will keep thinking about what to do.
By the way the Dow is up over 300 points!
Please note that I was wrong, and am writing it in print. (I know...) At the time President Ezra Taft Benson was not President of the Church, but in the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Change your minds as you will.
I actually remember that talk! I was there at the Marriott Center when he gave it, and if you looked in my journal from that time period, you'd find notes from his talk!
And yes, he was an apostle, but not the prophet at the time. In his personal life, President Bensen was a very conservative man. In fact, he was the Secretary of Agriculture in the White House cabinet at one time! So political issues were very important to him. That is not to imply that what he said is right or wrong, but simply to give a little background.
I think we would probably all agree that there are abuses of the system. Perhaps we would also all agree that there are times when help is absolutely critical and totally justified. The challenge is to find the line, and to know what is best for each of us in our individual circumstances.
I guess my personal perspective is that I know my tax dollars are paying for things I am completely opposed to, so I'm okay with thinking that they also help to give good people a temporary helping hand.
Having said that, I want you to know that I'm proud of you for being concerned and wanting to do what's right.
One thing that frustrates me is that nearly everyone I talk to about the issue says one of two things -
1. While people abuse the system, we aren't.
2. There is no other way.
I know that there are people who abuse the system. However, my worry in this issue isn't so much that people are taking advantage of us all (although that is extremely irritating.) I worry about the people who, following all of the rules of the system, take welfare money so they can avoid discomfort and pain, and then honestly think, "I could not make it otherwise." Somehow nearly everyone in our society forgets that it is actually possible to sustain human life with much less. In a world where we have to have all natural, no preservatives, organically grown asparagus (although we supplement it with $6 hamburgers and are all obese,) we cannot imagine filling our stomach sometimes with rice only. We can have a family of ten in a two room house, we can sell our car and buy a cheaper one or opt for a bike. We could only buy used clothing. We could certainly live more meagerly in many ways. All of us. Every single one of us, and 99.9% of the population of the United States could. I even think that the majority of Venezuelans could spend less money and make it through. I saw plenty of wasted money down there on alcohol, and gambling, and still poor families seemed to get by in general. It is possible. The problem that I have with welfare is it creates a dependence on the state were the receiver honestly feels helpless without it. As we feel helpless we feel trapped, and in bondage. This blog has been an interesting experience for me, as it has really sharpened my opinion on the subject. I have always tried to be self sufficent, but after looking this money in the face, and rejecting it, I feel so free. I know that we will make it. The doors already seem to be opening themselves for us. Let others abuse the system knowingly, and the rest unknowingly be abused by it. I am done, and just hope I have gotten a few others to think.
Very thoughtful, Eric. Like others, I didn't feel guilty taking advantage of subsidized housing when in law school, and I've paid enough taxes that I didn't feel guilty about my kids taking advantage of some of the programs, food stamps, etc. At the same time, you've made excellent points about our need to know we can get along on our own -- Benson's comment about the price of something for nothing being more than we can afford was poignant. The trap is there and real. The more we all try to get a return on our tax dollars, the more the programs expand and the taxes (or deficits) go up! (P.S., we sustain Apostles as prophets, seers and revelators, too.)
This has been a very interesting read and I'm still not sure what my opinion is. Maybe that's because... well... it's pretty dang hard (even impossible though you might disagree) to simultaneously get an education, save, stay out of debt, not wait to get married, not put off having a family, not use governmental help, and keep mom at home. Did I forget anything? I was talking to someone about this the other day and he said that after this talk by Pres. Benson was given (but I don't think in response to) Elder Oaks said "our children" should use the programs. But I don't know. It's just what someone said. You can look it up if you want. Awesome that you will always work hard for what you receive. It really is. Thanks again for the awesome budget sheet. You really should sell it!
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